Fortcave.

[[CHAOS]Homicide]

Right Fortcave's done.
Only minor tiny fixes will be done if any are found which need sorting.

map: http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~homicide/map-fortcave.pk3

Images:



Name: Forts and Caves
Modes: DM, TP, CTF
Bots: Yes
Players: 4 - 16
Description: Forts, caves, guns, what more could an action star ask for?
Author: [CHAOS]Homicide
e-mail addy: john@hardcorepawn.com

And that's it. I'm going to bed.

[Alicey]

It looks very Quake 2 =/

[Spook]

i like the choice of textures u used for the caves and rocks, even the staligmites(sp) as seen in pic2. very nice touch, but i got to agree with alicey in the q2ish feel to it. i think it has to do with the textures u used for the buildings. they seem to be the same ones from aq2, and that the roofs in the buldings is too short. also, some of the lighting on the outside seems kinda washed out. maybe some more shadows on the rocks and walls would help with BAS relief on the textures.

but other than the textures, i think this map has a lot of potential. the layout and brushwork is very good. the textures is the only prob i have with it. specifically the choice of brick. i cant wait to play against some other ppl on it. i'm gonna try out against the bits atm. good job

[Centurion]

Yeah find some better brick and door textures. I think the grass could be a bit better too. Even if you look at our maps and grab some. Your missing two textures in the .pk3. The water texture and another. I took shots but haven't had a chance to upload them.


I think the layout's going to be fun. I never played it in AQ2.

[MP*Birdman]

how nit picky should we be?

ie, general "this is a work in progress", or something like alice and sze doing "this vertex needs to be 0.0000001 units lower." ?

[Spook]

i think this is his final (no _beta in front of it) and he said ..its DONE!. bt i may be wrong

[[CHAOS]Homicide]

It's a "I'm getting pissed off with the ammount of work this is taking, and how long it takes to compile" state of finishedness.

There's only so much which can be done without changing the entire feel of it, which gives for a fair bit of the AQ2 ness of it.

E.g. the underground cave.. I know most of the surfaces are pretty flat and angled, but adding detail will make it a fair bit harder to move around in.
Same for the above ground, detail will impede the flow a fair bit... unless it's all playerclipped to hell and back.

The polycount in the main area is sitting at about 8000 so there's a limit to how much more detail can be added in the brushwork of the walls etc.

The brick texture is a new one, but obviously needs work. I can probably add a fair bit of detail to it without too much difficulty

The water texture was (I thought) a standard Q3 one.

I can reduce the ammount of sun to make for a bit stronger light/dark feel, but the radiosity pass of rendering does make for the washed out feel a bit.. changing the sun angle might make a difference...

As for the roofs being to short. erm what? you mean increse the angle on the slpoed bit to make for a steeper roof?

All in all I'm just wanting this thing finished and ot of the way, so I can work on something else. I've got one or two low poly impact ideas for the walls and their textures. But I dunno how soon I'm going to get them done.

[Spook]

i know what u mean about get this thing done already.. same boat with amunra... ur map is almost READY i think.
however, those brick really give it a bad look imo. the roof height i mean is when u are actually in a building... if u jump u'll hit ur head type low is what i mean. (kinda hard to fix i think without redoing ur buildings).
If ur using radiosity bouncing TOO much, yes it will look too washed out. i always use -fast (less light and 500X faster) with 1 or 2 radiosity bounces. if its still too washed out, try reducing the amount in your entity lights if u have them, or reducing the surfacelight in the skyshader.
I think the underground looks great though. its just those darn low resolution textures on brick and doors that kinda look akward in comparison with your hi-res ones.

try these. http://www.planetquake.com/bighouse/textures.asp maybe evils 4 (at bottom), max brick, or egypt_soc (towards bottom) hope this helps..

[[CHAOS]Homicide]

Ah.. it's a leftover from the AQ2 version.. to get 3 floors, and have the roof jump onto-able, the floors have to be that shallow.
I could re-do it with just 2 floors possibly.

As for the brick textures, they're actually both 256*256, just scaled to 0.2*0.1 to make the brick size not huge.. I think I shouldn't have blurred the noise which gives it a roughish surface by as much. Still after making the two rock textures I've got a better ide of how to add detail without it looking like it's detail added to specifically look like it's jsut there to say there's some detail.

I think there's only 2 entity lights in the entire map, all the other light is surfaces, mainly the sky, and It's using 2 bounces with -fast.

The underground looks pretty dark with no/1 bounce, the above ground looks too pale with 2 or more. Might be able to use some of the q3map2 surfaceparms to reduce the bounce ammount above ground to make it wash out less.

EDIT: Hrm, looks like I'm going to have to spend this afternoon downloading all those texture sets for inspiration, there's some good shit in there.

[Coper]

Good work Homicide . I would say this is a rather completed
map. Performance is good too! I cant wait the next map by Homicide, this is nice one!

[MP*Birdman]

I took some screenies of some bugs I found, and I can post them tonight.

the biggest things were a few light leaks, textures, and on the building with 3 stories and 3 windows per story, you cant go inside it from the ledge, and the ledge doesen't really do anything. also, getting on its roof to get the weapon there is rather hard/difficult.

texturing is the biggest thing though. a more detailed grass would help for instance. other places, like that deviding wall have some wierdness too, as it has what looks like a highway going along it.

[[CHAOS]Homicide]

I took some screenies of some bugs I found, and I can post them tonight.

the biggest things were a few light leaks, textures, and on the building with 3 stories and 3 windows per story, you cant go inside it from the ledge, and the ledge doesen't really do anything. also, getting on its roof to get the weapon there is rather hard/difficult.

texturing is the biggest thing though. a more detailed grass would help for instance. other places, like that deviding wall have some wierdness too, as it has what looks like a highway going along it.

Screenies are good.

D'oh... I remember the light leak now. on the ruins with the sniper. Meant to fix that.. and there might have been one in the tower with the rope thing. Knew I forgot to fix somethign before compiling :/

The jump to the M4 on the roof is hard? Keep your right side pushing into the wall, run forward and jump... 100% success rate. EDIT: From the top of the wall round the upper level of the fort that is.

AS for textures looks like they're going to get a revamp tonight.. must rememebr to plug in mytalet to make things easier.

[MP*Birdman]

i tried the right side, and I kept hitting the overhang of the roof, everytime.

you should add a ladder or something onto it as well anyways, to make it harder to camp access to that area.

[Jmmsbnd007]

This is a port of that one AQ2 map, right?

[Coper]

yep.

[[CHAOS]Homicide]

i tried the right side, and I kept hitting the overhang of the roof, everytime.

you should add a ladder or something onto it as well anyways, to make it harder to camp access to that area.

Obviously a little misunderstanding, go into the fort and up into the higher part of the fort, up the rocky slope. Climb the metal stairs, jump up onto the wall edge.
hold strafe into the wall, run forwards, jump at the edge of the wall, and you make the roof.
In fact you dont even need to jump, or strafe into the rockface to make it, just running of of the top wall will land you on the roof.

I'll add a ladder anyway.

[MP*Birdman]

are we thinking of the same place?
edit:
i'm thinking of the roof in the upper left corner in the first pic you posted above, on the left of that wall

[Spook]

for the washed out look on the outside, try reducing the amount of surfacelight in your sky shader then, this may help aleviate the bounce problem.

[[CHAOS]Homicide]

are we thinking of the same place?
edit:
i'm thinking of the roof in the upper left corner in the first pic you posted above, on the left of that wall

Yes, the roof with the M4 on it, the roof of the 3 floored building.

You get to the roof by jumping down onto it from the wall above. Takes no damage.

[MP*Birdman]

i was trying to get to it from below.. that you CAN'T do.

as for the wall thing, I never tried running on the walls, per se.

when I'm home from work, I'll go through it again

[MP*Birdman]

picture time!!
Maybe a different texture on the top/sides.. dirt doesn't cut off that sharp. it could be paved maybe? The grass texture needs changing too.

A bit of a light leak it looks like

Can you make this texture change not as appareant somehow, maybe a devider or something? Those angles like that really dont work.

[url=http://birdman.ouelong.com/fortcave/fortcave13.jpg]
Visible crack in the wall here[/url]

[url=http://birdman.ouelong.com/fortcave/fortcave14.jpg]
light leaks. this is the spot with the sniper, if it's not clear[/url]

Light is coming under this wall

no texture

texture mismatch thingie

a black corver on this one face in the main area.

a blue thing half in the wall, running off solar power???

make this reach the lip above it. Also, if you want a light stand, maybe a better, less q2-ish texture? ideally, an actual street light or something similar.

leak thingie

is this a highway?

I can stand on these ledges, but can't go in. change please, else there's no reason for me to stand here to be picked off

the sewer tunnel from the bottom. the lid blocks it off, and you can't go straight up and out

better brick texture, that doesen't tile as much pls.

the bulbs on these wont take bulletmarks. are they weaponclipped wrong or something?

this ladder makes no noise when you climb. add some metal rung sounds or something?

same thing as before. can't bullet mark this either

light leak. also the door texture needs to be changed

missing textures

the brick texture on the side and edge of these walls dont line up right

no texture here

that sewer door, opening wrong

i can't get in here from the pool. intended?

same as above; dirt wouldn't hold this edge

that's what stood out to me.

the biggest thing is the textures. also, your r-speeds are pretty low, so you could add more detail to the ground if you want. it's too blocky/q2ish for my tastes, but you may want it that way for jumping or something.

the links should all be good, but the server isin't a file server.. :)

[[CHAOS]Homicide]

> picture time!!

Always good.

>Maybe a different texture on the top/sides.. dirt doesn't cut off that sharp. it could be paved maybe? The grass texture needs changing too.

Probably an idea.. the grass texture's already been changed.

> A bit of a light leak it looks like

I looked at that.. only thing I can see it being is a minor q3map2 bug.. there's no light sources near there.

>Can you make this texture change not as appareant somehow, maybe a devider or something? Those angles like that really dont work.

I put the angles in on purpose TBH... Think I might make the change not spread across so much, so it's more of a vertical divide.

> Visible crack in the wall here

This is what happens when you use CSG subtract kiddies, it gets the numbers slightly wrong.

> light leaks. this is the spot with the sniper, if it's not clear

Already fixed.

> Light is coming under this wall

Looks like I need to either make the lightmapscale on the floor less, or move the wall so it sits on the light map change

> no texture

Bugger... another I thought was standard.. Should be simple to replace.

> texture mismatch thingie

I know.. the floor and walls are supposed to be different textures... I can make the change happen lower though...

> a black corver on this one face in the main area.

Lightmap problem I think..

> a blue thing half in the wall, running off solar power???

I needed some light.. I'll see if I can find a more 'understandable' reason for something there.

> make this reach the lip above it. Also, if you want a light stand, maybe a better, less q2-ish texture? ideally, an actual street light or something similar.

I think that actual street lights would look like shit on this map TBH. When was the last time you saw big lights on poles in a fort-esque structure. I may change these for the neon tube style lights.

> leak thingie

Possibly light problem from useless spotlight thing above. I'll take the spotlight out and see if that leak goes away.

> is this a highway?

Texture's already been changed.

> I can stand on these ledges, but can't go in. change please, else there's no reason for me to stand here to be picked off

The lower one worked, just forgot to check the upper one. Fixed last night.

> the sewer tunnel from the bottom. the lid blocks it off, and you can't go straight up and out

Buggeration.. stretched the lid slightly before compile because there was a small gap.. think it must've messed up the origin brush.. it used to swing upwards.

> better brick texture, that doesen't tile as much pls.

Ok.

> the bulbs on these wont take bulletmarks. are they weaponclipped wrong or something?

Think it's part of the shader, since they're standard Q3, they must've decided to make them surfaceparm nomark.
I'll sort them out.

> this ladder makes no noise when you climb. add some metal rung sounds or something?

Not quite sure how to do this, since I don't think the rung surface parm makes a noise if you're climbing.. can a sound be made to play only when you move on a ladder?

> same thing as before. can't bullet mark this either

Same reason as above..

> light leak. also the door texture needs to be changed

Leak fixed alst night, as was door texture.

> missing textures

Another one I thought was standard Q3.. obviously not.

> the brick texture on the side and edge of these walls dont line up right

Fixed last night.

> no texture here

See above.

> that sewer door, opening wrong

See above.

> i can't get in here from the pool. intended?

Yes.

> same as above; dirt wouldn't hold this edge

It's supposed to be rock, not dirt :/ Looks like the texture needs a little work then.


>that's what stood out to me.
>
>the biggest thing is the textures. also, your r-speeds are pretty low, so you could add more detail to the ground if you want. it's too blocky/q2ish for my tastes, but you may want it that way for jumping or something.

The wall textures ahve all been re-done last night with amuch higer resolution, and detail version.
A fair bit of the blockiness is to stop from impeding the flow for DM.. I liked being able to traverse the map pretty quickly with circle jumping etc...

>the links should all be good, but the server isin't a file server..

[MP*Birdman]

yay

[Centurion]

Ladders cannot make sounds as of yet.

[MP*Birdman]

BOOO

[skorstener]

Can't you just make a trigger or two that targets a speaker with some matal-ish sounds that the player will pass through on the way up/down?

[[CHAOS]Homicide]

Can't you just make a trigger or two that targets a speaker with some matal-ish sounds that the player will pass through on the way up/down?

It'd make the noise even if you were sitting still on the ladder.

[Sze]

Posted in the news on the Backlot. Sorry for the delay.

[^Proto]

Err, not to be rude, but you havn't exactly pushed the Q3 engine to it's limit... I know, I'm not the one to say anything, hell, I don't even know how to start a new project in any map editor...

... anyway, for me, Action Quake / Reaction Quake is all about speed, and your map, is a terrainmap, which often includes speed, well, it does in this chase anyway, so I think this map's gameplay would be awsome when it's finaly released and played on servers!!

Just fix and tweak those things earlier mentioned, and I think people would start /callvote map fortcave right away

[[CHAOS]Homicide]

Thanks for the vote of confidence ^Proto

If anyone's interested, I've stuck the new textures on a page, so if anyone wants to use them in a map, or use them as a basis for a new texture, they can, as long as I'm mentioned in the doc somewhere, it's all cool.

http://www.hardcorepawn.com/textures

The Brick ones probably need the shine taking off of them, and the door one's still not that good.
The grass one looks bloody fantastic if I do say so myself.. especially on all the new lumpy terrain fortcave just aquired.. don't worry, you can still whizz across it at high speed, you can also get som eheight now, and probably do a couple of interesting jumps.

Kept having problems with random polys suddenly dissapearing whilst playing the map.. no idea what the fuck was up with them, but they all had to be deleted, and re-created. to get it to work.

Most of the fixes are done, just 2 left AFAICT, and one of them is the lighting, which'll take a while to get right.